Sri Lanka - Modern Perspectives from an Ancient Melting Pot
Sri Lanka: Modern Perspectives from an Ancient Melting Pot is a podcast that explores Sri Lanka’s rich history, diverse cultures, and modern-day realities. From ancient kingdoms and colonialism to post-war society and global diaspora, we dive deep into the forces shaping this unique island nation.
Join experts, artists, activists, and everyday voices as we unpack timely topics — including Sri Lankan politics, ethnic identity, migration, innovation, climate change, and regional dynamics in South Asia.
Whether you're Sri Lankan, part of the diaspora, or curious about the cultural, political, and historical depth of South Asia, this podcast offers thoughtful conversations and fresh perspectives.
New episodes released regularly. Season 3 starts in September.
👉 Follow now to discover modern stories from one of the world’s oldest civilizations.
Keywords: Sri Lanka podcast, South Asia, Sri Lankan diaspora, Tamil Sinhalese history, modern Sri Lanka, island culture, South Asian politics, global south voices, post-conflict society
Sri Lanka - Modern Perspectives from an Ancient Melting Pot
Roma Wells: Tales from BBC Travel Presenter and Author
In this episode Dee interviews Roma Wells, the new BBC TV Travel presenter who shares her unique journey and experiences as an Irish Sri Lankan. They discuss Roma's career inspiration, her travels to destinations like the Arctic and Costa Rica, and delve into her childhood, highlighting how her heritage and passion for nature have shaped her.
Roma talks about her book, 'Seek the Singing Fish,' available widely in bookstores and online. She has launched her new company, Curious Fox Travel, which creates responsible and enriching travel experiences and the conversation covers how travellers and hoteliers can come together to make travel a force for good. Themes of sustainable travel, the power of nature, and the importance of human connection connect this conversation and show us how we can fill ourselves with awe and wonder and be kind to our planet at the same time.
Summary
00:49 Introducing Roma Wells: Nature Presenter and Author
02:13 Adventures in Costa Rica and the Arctic
06:33 Childhood Curiosity and Love for Nature
11:26 The Blend of Irish and Sri Lankan Heritage
21:59 Sustainable Travel and Compassion Fatigue
29:54 Embracing Awe and Living in the Moment
30:52 Connecting with Nature and Inner Self
31:58 Exploring the Spiritual Perspective
33:29 The Journey of Writing 'Seek the Singing Fish'
35:18 Nature as a Sanctuary and Source of Hope
44:38 Curious Fox Travel: Ethical and Enriching Experiences
52:23 The Importance of Community and Collaboration
55:50 Kalukanda House: A Haven of Rejuvenation
01:01:09 Future Endeavors and Final Thoughts
About Roma Wells
Roma Wells is an Author, Adventurer and Presenter who is wildly curious about life. She runs Curious Fox Travel which is all about travelling kinder, offering breathtaking trips which uplift local communities and support wildlife conservation. As a storyteller at the core, she is immensely passionate about uplifting mental health through exploring the wonders of our natural world.
www.romawells.com
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/60101407-seek-the-singing-fish
Title: Sri Lanka: Modern Perspectives from an Ancient Melting Pot
Host: Dee Gibson — Sri Lankan-born, award winning designer based in London and founder of boutique hotel Kalukanda House in Sri Lanka. www.kalukandahouse.com | instagram @deegibson2017 & @kalukandahouse
Podcast Themes:
- Modern Sri Lankan identity and culture
- Architecture, art, and design
- Sustainability and heritage
- Diaspora experiences and storytelling
Why Listen:
This podcast offers deep, intelligent storytelling about Sri Lanka’s evolving identity — a blend of East and West, ancient and modern. It’s for listeners who love culture, travel, architecture, and thoughtful conversation.
Welcome to Sri Lanka, Modern Perspectives from an Ancient Melting Pot, the podcast that shares conversations of a dynamic modern-day Sri Lanka. I'm your host, Dee Gibson, a British Sri Lankan designer living in London and founder of Boutique Hotel Kalakanda House on the South Coast. I've made it my mission to lift the veil on what, and more importantly, who this island is. So join me and my guests as we talk about all the things you never read about in your favourite travel pages. No subject is taboo, and this is the island I see and I want to share with all of you. This week I talk to Roma Wells, the new BBC TV nature presenter. She's an author and a travel expert too. Roma is Iris Sri Lankan and has an unusual lens on how her heritage has shaped her. Inspired by David Attenborough on our screens, and her beloved grandfather in Sri Lanka, who showed her crocodiles and other wildlife, she developed a passion for nature and travel. We talk about her recent trip to the Arctic and Costa Rica, and why Sri Lanka will always be her number one destination, and how we can continue to find ways to move around the world, making the characteristic of kindness a key factor in how we plan where to stay. She has written a book which draws on her life experiences, extensive academic research, and listening to stories told to her by her family to create a novel that reflects on the civil war in Sri Lanka, told through the eyes of a young girl. I think I've just spent an hour talking to a new kind of TV travel presenter who looks at the world in a way that will create awe in every single one of us. I'm super excited to see my lovely guest today, Roma Wells. Welcome. Great to be here. You're just back from somewhere rather exciting, aren't you? Where have you just come back from?
SPEAKER_00:It's been quite a while on the road, actually, Dee. So it was Sri Lanka, then headed to the Mordives to some Coral Reef Costa Vic conservation projects, then over to the Arctic, as you do, for some presenting, and then jumps back from Costa Rica, which was just oh sensation. Have you been to Costa Rica?
SPEAKER_01:I've never been to Costa Rica, but I keep hearing how incredible it is.
SPEAKER_00:It's unbelievable. You really feel like you're on nature's turf there, right? It's like half a million different species living there. It's just this biodiversity haven. And everyone has this like inbuilt respect for nature, and you feel like you it's wraps around you. And this is a saying you hear. If you don't speak Spanish, you don't need to in Costa Rica, because they all just say this one phrase, pure vida. They say hello, they say goodbye, they say it's welcome, you know. But it means more than that. It's like a way of being, it means like the pure life, and you really feel that there. It's like, you know, being tucked in nature. And I don't know, you just it's humbling. So yeah, I was there doing a um a nature tour, and we were horseback riding through cloud forests, we were ziplining through jungles, searching through all kinds of eclectic wild spaces, like all the slots of toucans and crocodiles and cooking with locals. It was just mind-blowingly beautiful. So good to be back, but also I really miss it already.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it sounds absolutely idyllic. And Costa Rica as well has set set a standard, hasn't it, in terms of sustainable travel and um what it's doing to protect its own biodiversity.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think it's about a third of the country now is protected space. So you really do get that sense of respect being embedded to the fabric of country. And obviously the tourism is doing very well there. I'm actually keen to to explore places quite nearby which have similar kind of landscapes and creatures and offerings, but they don't get any of the footfall, you know, and there's so much to see there. But Costa Rica is a prime one to see how to model other types of tourism on. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Oh my god, we've already got we've already got straight into it. It's too exciting. I just want to jump ahead to so many questions. Yes, please. Um, you can put me in your suitcase next time. But I I am interested in Antarctica as well. Because you did kind of two of those trips side by side, didn't you? So what were you doing in Antarctica and what did you see?
SPEAKER_00:I was actually up on the edge of the Arctic, and the idea, I was I was presenting the BBC for a travel show. And the idea is that a lot of people flock to Iceland to go to the south, right? They go to Reykjavik and they do the waterfalls and the sulfuric mud pots, but there is so much to see in the north. You know, you've got all of this variety, but there's no one there. So it's a kind of way of spreading out the tourism and getting people interested in another part of the country. But also, there's some very interesting kind of cultural and social stories going on. Obviously, I'm always drawn to the nature. Um and actually, so in the north, you've got one of the biggest whaling hubs historically there. So if you used, you know, Plagin and you know, obliterate whales there, but it's now turned into one of the biggest whale-watching hotspots in the world. And it's amazing because the very same boats that would go out killing whales are now going out to admire them. And you think whales' lifetime, 90 years, they would they would recognise these boats. It was interesting kind of psychologically to see the shifts there. But um it's incredible.
SPEAKER_01:And whales, they were hunted for their fat and their blubber as well as their meat, weren't they? So has that all of that been replaced?
SPEAKER_00:Not entirely, like it still does go on, obviously, in other parts of the world. Um, but within Iceland, there's obviously bans on it now. But there's a big complex people travel there thinking the traditional Icelandic sood is whale meat. So they want to go and have a taste of authentic Iceland and Troy whale meat and shark meat and all these things. But Icelanders don't eat that. You know, there is this slaverist food, and that's in the culture, but there's a sense I was going there to also look at that and see how they're shifting away to more traditional methods. You can still have kind of grandma's cooking and explore those kind of flavors, but you don't have to be annihilating these majestic species at the same time. So it was bloody cold. It was so cold. Oh my god. I bet you are, and you're a tiny, tiny little person as well.
SPEAKER_01:So you must have had so many layers on.
SPEAKER_00:You got under thermals, middle thermals, jackets, jumpers, and you still can't feel anything on your face. But it was nice, it's racing. You didn't really need a coffee in the morning. I think obviously.
SPEAKER_01:I bet, I bet. Oh, I can't wait to hear more of that. And I know you can't talk too much about um one of your roles, which we'll come on to in a moment. But you're you're just you do so much travelling and you're such an inquisitive person, your love of nature and and the planet. I'm really interested in just rolling back the years a bit and finding out a little bit about your background and growing up. And how did Roma today come to be?
SPEAKER_00:Very profound question. I feel like I mean, I do think I have a lot of young Roma still in me. That's part of what keeps me quite happy and playful. But I was a very curious child. I remember that. I would piss off parents, brothers, had two older brothers, so complete tomboy, boots in the mud, stuck in the dirt, you know, jumping football with that. But I would I would ask questions all of the time. I was just picking things up, collecting things. I had a curiosity that was kind of unquenchable. Um, but I was also a strange child and that I would wander off a lot. So I was always getting told of uh dawdling and just taking myself on adventures outside of the house. And the one I remember a lot, actually, is when I was kid, there was this park nearby, and there was this huge slide, and I used to see the big kids going down backwards on the slide, and it scared me. I thought, oh my god, that looks terrifying, and I really wanted to be able to do it. But I used to keep going out and sneaking out the house to go and practice going down this slide backwards and kind of overcoming the fear. So there's something about I don't know, escaping, wandering on my own, taking on challenges that kind of terrified me, but alert me that's always bad. But the nature thing is huge. Like I have had this passion for nature since as long as I can remember. It's it's creatures in particular, you know, like in beings and technology and forms, but my granddad instilled it in me. He was the he was my hero. Um he grew up in Matacaloa in Sri Lanka, and he was absolutely nuts, which is always a great start. Weirdness of character. But he used to go and take me down to the lagoons and show me crocodiles, dragonflies, and caprigoya, and he just had this infectious enthusiasm about nature that he passed to me. And then my mum had it too, and she was an animal health inspector, and so her job in London was taking animals smuggled in at the borders and transporting them safely. So she used our home in London as a kind of landing base to feed and water them. So we had pythons, panthers, scorpions, chameleons, like you name it in the house. So I was just infatuated. So the passion started really early, and then in the garden shed became a sanctuary to nurse birds and mice. And yeah. I mean, I was an annoying child, clearly, but an inquisitive one, which I think should be encouraged, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Wow, absolutely. And I love that picture that you've painted of your grandfather as well. Uh when we first met and I we started following each other on Instagram, and I and I checked out your Instagram post and I showed my my children actually. There's a beautiful post of you. I think one it was a film that you put together during lockdown and you were making friends with local foxes. Yes. Yes, we're and you told me your grandfather did he love foxes as well?
SPEAKER_00:He adored foxes, yeah. He was it was one of those things because when you're in London and you see a fox, you forget that's the thing, because it's normal now, right? We see them all the time, they kind of domesticate themselves. But it's bizarre in a way to have these beautiful wild predators just roaming the streets nearby reading our bins. And you know, when you lock eyes with a fox on the street at night, there's this kind of this power to it, you know, it's these two passing creatures locked in a moment outside time. And I've always just found them all so fussing. And during lockdown as well, when, you know, you know, our limited daily walks, I just spent a lot of time with them, getting to know the different leashes and how they kind of corrugated, where they hunted, how long they'd stay for, and ends up befriending quite a few of them because they would recognize the sound of my boots, and I would just sort of sit down and be still, and they'd come and eat, I'd bring leftovers, and I'd just be sort of chilling with the foxes.
SPEAKER_01:But it's interesting how foxes get a bit of a bad rap, don't they? Particularly in London. But if you think about all the characters from our childhood books and from cartoons and everything else in these real life stories, they're friendly. They are, you know, so um it's lovely that people like you can show us how to see behind the stories that are painted about our world life.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I've got a lot of bones picked with Disney and all that because they do tend to paint new certain charisma traits on creatures, and it's wrong. Like vultures is another one I'm really passionate about because when you think of a vulture, you think of scavenging and death, right? They have this very horrible connotation, it's doom and gloom. But they are like vaulting for our ecosystems, you know, the way they they scavenge, right? They they release this disinfectant when they poo, they're basically pooping out cleaner, right? Whereas dogs and rats are spreading diseases like rabies and anthrax, vultures are hoovering up rock, you know, really efficiently on the phone, and everything's scraped clean, and then you know, helping to preserve the ecosystem. Yet the way we see them, because they're not the most aesthetically pleasing creatures, we tend to judge them too much. And there's so many things like that with boxes, eye-eyes, vultures. Yeah, to they're caricaturized. There's some reshaping that needs to be done for sure.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely change the narrative. Exactly we're all about that. I love it. But um, so you're interesting as well because I mean for lots of different reasons, but you have mixed Irish and Sri Lankan heritage. I think it's quite an unusual mix. Did that inform your interest in your journalism, in foreign affairs, your degree in international relations?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, for me, I never met another Sri Lankan Irish person, if my nice it was always quite strange and mixed relief. But I was always fascinated by these beautiful countries, both these islands that were torn apart by conflict. You know, that was always kind of embedded into me, this kind of rumbling sense of there being these core fault lines in humans that, you know, have have totally stained the reputation of the places in some ways. And so I was always drawn to study kind of foreign affairs and conflict because I wanted to understand more about fault lines and people's identity and how you can forge so much, so strong a sense of self that it would create such a clear, demarcated other. And for me personally, being mixed race, being Irish and I've never really felt like I'd fit in anywhere. So this sense of kind of homeland, I don't feel British, I don't feel Irish, I don't feel shrunk, and I feel parts of all of them, but I don't feel fully at home anywhere. It's at kind of outside of those boundaries. So I'm interested in the sense of what is a homeland? Does it have to exist on you know geographical and political lines, or is it something that can be fostered and formed elsewhere? So that that was something that very much drew me. And in terms of international relations, I was interested in how you know there are some issues that cross borders, right? They are completely borderless, whether it's environmental problems, trafficking on slavery. So you have to have these kind of zoomed-out solutions to deal with them. So it's more coming at it from a way to kind of affect a positive change and stop the horrors of the past from happening again. But what zooming out is something that informs my entire identity because I feel like anytime you have a problem in life or you're stressed about anything, zoom out. We're on a floating rock, going around a burning ball in the sky in the middle of space. So how bad can it really be? You know? Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my god, I love that. I think that's probably the most wise thing I've ever heard. I'm gonna remember that next time I'm spinning out and stressing out about something. Um, I really love everything that you said, actually, and in terms of the parallels that you've drawn and the contrast that you've drawn between Sri Lanka and Ireland. I hadn't thought of that at all, actually, these two islands that have been just completely split apart by internal conflict and then are portrayed in a certain way to the outside world and within themselves are deeply patriotic. So you don't see yourself as belonging to any of these nations. What you've just described about zooming away from it, you see yourself as a woman of the world. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I see different feeders inside. It's all a kind of ingredients that form like an immongral self. And I like it that way because I feel like I'm then it makes me more curious about culture in general because I want to learn about these different components. There are patterns that you can see. There are people who break those stereotypes. There are there is just so much in there. It's it almost feels simplistic. Humans are so bloody complicated, so why do we simplify it so much, you know, and put ourselves in these boxes?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I completely agree. And also that sort of shows your love for people and their stories, as well as the animal kingdom and and our planet and how it all kind of comes together as an as an ecosystem and how we fit together or try to fit fit together.
SPEAKER_00:Do our best. But yeah, my first job that I ever had was in Camden Market in London. And I went there as a as a teenager. I was I was 13 years old. I was wondering through this kind of labyrinth and all these peoples and cultures and music and flavour. And I was like, I really want to just spend more time here, right? It was so interesting. It was like this jungle. And I tried to get a job, but I realised I was way too young to be getting a job at 13. So I came back and pretended to be older and managed to persuade the owner, and then I would spend all of my weekends working in the shops there and learning from different characters and so many eclectic characters in that market and different cultural ways of being and foods, and that really gave me the sense of, oh my gosh, this world is so big. And that's the beautiful thing about London as well, because you have this kind of microcosm of all these exploding, fusing cultures right there in front of you, and yeah, it just all there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. When you come back to London having travelled to all these far flung places, I can understand why that feels like home, obviously, because that's where you grew up. But does it feel small all of a sudden and crowded?
SPEAKER_00:It definitely feels crowded. I will absolutely think that because I'm a big fan of going out into like the quietness of nature and exploring landscapes where there are a few people, because that for me is like tranquility. Um, so it definitely feels crowded, but there is kind of a a calm in the chaos, I find. Yeah, a very, very busy city. And it is contrasting to everything else I do. So I do enjoy it. But that said, I I wouldn't be able to survive without parks in London. Like that's my happy place, sitting under trees and writing and you know, being boxes. If that wasn't there, I I would you know question what I'm doing here.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So that's where your adventurous side and love of travel comes, I suppose. I I don't don't want to put words in your mouth, but what I'm sort of hearing is just your curiosity about people, about different cultures, wanting to go and see all of these different animals. And I mean, being shown crocodiles by your grandfather and then making friends with foxes in London. I mean, come on. I had no choice.
SPEAKER_00:That was a weird rate.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly. It was absolutely meant to be for you. You are passionate about wildlife and nature. Yes. And you've got so many things, so many strings to your bow in terms of journalism, writing books, which we're gonna come on to the international relations, the travel, but you're working on something quite exciting now, which is why you were sent to Antarctica. So can you share a little bit as much as you can about that? What is that role?
SPEAKER_00:So, yeah, so I very newly started a presenting job, BBC Travel Show. So they send me out, which is yay, it's very exciting. Yay! And I I often I don't know where I'm going until quite soon before, and then it's deep down excavate whatever you can about the natures, flavors, and culture of the place. And then we go out and we try and tell a story in a topical way. So recently I was off to the edge of the Arctic in northern Iceland, and that was about seeing how you can explore Iceland as a country in a completely different way, rather than flocking to the south where everyone is. How can we explore the nature and the landscape of this very kind of quinient and profound landscape in a whole new way? Um, and so we were looking that at that from kind of a cultural perspective. So when we think of Iceland of the Scandi countries, we think of Vikings, right? So how can we learn about Viking history in a bit more less clinical textbook a way? Um, and so there were a lot of amazing initiatives there, which are you go visit the battlefields and they map those battlefields into a VR system, and then you immerse yourself as a Viking would with this kind of body armor which makes you feel all the impacts, and you go into fight as a Viking, and you and it gives you that kind of human sense of the conflict. And it's amazing because I really had it totally pegged wrong because I I thought you'd be picking up these epic battle axes and huge shields. It's really rudimentary, like you're you're picking up rocks most of the time. It really does bring it back to the kind of basics of of what you were dealing with, you know, and how again those raw kind of conflicts would form and between clans and how quickly it could change. So yeah, it's looking around taking Iceland's history and all the kind of stereotypes I guess we have about it and looking at it in a new way. Um, but fundamentally it's about getting people to explore these places.
SPEAKER_01:But I actually think that's a really clever way of using um VR beyond the sort of games and things to get people to really step back in time and and understand that. What a fantastic idea. And so you're not told until quite close to when you're leaving. And then is it down to you to research the area or are you given some pointers?
SPEAKER_00:You're given some sort of vague pointers. So they're sort of like kind of spheres that they say we're probably going to look at this area and that, but nothing too specific. Because the key to it is to keep it quite authentic, you know, over the cuff conversations, genuine engagement with people that you meet. Um, so it's definitely not scripted by any means. It's all very much as we get out there, the story builds. We like this idea of like once you get there, you find the story, you excavate it once you're there. Um, and I think that's good because being a presenter was never really my dream, if I'm honest. I've loved to write since as long as I can remember, but being on screen talking wasn't something I was drawn to. I sort of stumbled into it because of my curiosity. And you know, I love to engage with people. And when I think of presenters like mine, you know, like Timberwolves the King and Simon Reeves, they ignite that kind of excitement about life. They make you they raise more questions. So that's that's the fun of it. And I think curiosity is the key thing you need to have. I'm learning so much because I'm totally new to it, but being curious and interested in what people have to say, and all of these untold wonders to unpack from different countries is what you need to have. And I I've always hated to all see presenters and they interview someone and you can tell they're just waiting to say the next intelligent question. Like they don't care, like the whole listen, you know, pay attention, look at the emotion in the eyes, and that's the fun bit.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, I really love that approach, and I was going to talk about curiosity because it it comes across in spades with you. And I also believe that curiosity is one of the most important characteristics that a person can have, and it can be cultivated, can't it? Stop using your mouth and start using your ears and your eyes. So I mean, you've just answered one of my questions, why curious fox? But there you have it. I mean and I and I r actually I really have to applaud the BBC for picking the right person for the job. Oh in no, but it's true. Yeah, they they want you. That's true. BBC out there, whoever's listening, I know she's gonna be fantastic. No, but seriously, because if you over-research something, then I wonder if you might almost go into a situation with an expectation. If you just sort of have a a sense of it, then you're going in with I've got some background, what else can I unearth? Exactly. It's cover it.
SPEAKER_00:It's real, and there's as well, they're catching that light, you know? There's the sense of you should be the conduit for the audience, you should be the ideas, and you go in with what you learn rather than reading some formulaic script. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I know you've just started this role and uh you can't share where you're gonna be going, so I'm not gonna put you in that position, but you've traveled widely. What are you worried about in terms of the planet and where we are right now? Because of sustainable travel is such a big topic, it's something that I'm interested in talking about as well. We have to travel because it's in our nature. As humans, we're nomadic. How can we expand our brains and our minds and our hearts if we don't travel? But at the same time, we have this issue. So, how do you marry the two when people talk to you? How can we keep moving around the world but protect everything around us? I mean, that's a great question. How long you got?
SPEAKER_00:I would say, yeah, I mean, you got it right. We're we're nomadics, right? Like we are migrants at the core, we've always been moving, and we have to keep moving because that is how we learn, that's how we feed the curiosity, sound our way of seeing and and understanding the world. But again, yeah, that it's how do we do that? What is the kind of footprint or poreprint that we're leaving when we go to these places? And that's why I feel like sustainable travel has a bit of a bad rep. I actually don't like the word because I mean, first of all, sustainability is actually unsustainable when you think about it. We've got to do better.
unknown:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Whereas we've got to give back a bit more. So I think words like, you know, kinder travel, uplifting travel, regenerative travel, these are the things we need to think about. It's almost like the equivalent of of going into a garden. If you leave it sustainably, you know, it's untouched, you've taken a lid there, everything's fine. But what about if you watered something and left some seeds and actually helped something to come up? That's the kind of mindset we need to be cultivating. You know, it's the sense of how can you go into a place, appreciate what it has to offer from its peoples, its flavours, its nature, and know that you've left that place, leaving it better off. Because not only are you then going to feel good and be, you know, expanded by these experiences when you travel, you're gonna have that serotonin rush of knowing that you're helping it. You know, you're you're you're helping that thing continue and thrive. And so it's a fine balance between, I think, often it's about seeing it firsthand. So when you go and visit these communities or take part in travel experiences where you can see the positive impact it's having on specific individuals, not in general local economies. I mean specific people. How is that lady in that weaving shop benefiting? How is her daughter benefiting? How are those sloths that you've seen in the trees going to be better off from you thinking this experience over another one? Because that's the thing that that sticks in our head, you know. But I'm a big believer in terms of the problems you mentioned. I mean, there's so many problems. You're in the natural world. It's a dark tunnel to go down, but I could get murdered bleaching and deforestation and poor agriculture choices. But at the core, I think we have a problem with our kind of our psychological complacency, I would say. Because at the end of the day, we are a very short-lived humans. Our time on this rock is very short. You know, this rock, creatures have been here long before us, and it will be here long after us. So everything we do in terms of our infrared sustainability, it's about extending our lift. So it's very anthropocentric at the core. But the the problem is what we're doing to everything else around us, right? This ripple effect. The way I always imagine it is if you think of life on earth as this majestic tree, all these different species cling to a different branch, right? Which humans fall, which we inevitably will, we're not just taking down our branch, we're taking down chunks of the tree, we're pulling up the roots and we're yanking off parts of the bark. And ecosystems are very fragile and delicate. And so one tiny change in one area is gonna ripple through. And though it's easy for us to engage on big topics, we see tigers and trandas and whales, it's these non-charismatic creatures, these less sexy elements, so we shall we say, that we need to focus on because those are the things that are gonna ripple out and have a big effect. And then on a wider side from my kind of presenting and writing, I'm quite worried about the kind of compassion fatigue element because we have so much negativity, there's this onslaught, we're saturated with bad news all the time when we turn on our phones and our screens. So, how do you get people to care? You know, we're constantly being told how doom is doomed and how everything's going down the sinkhole, but how do you then get people to care? And for me, I think the shift has to be taking things back to that child like curiosity and exhilaration. Because when you're a kid and you're inspecting something under a microscope, or you're picking up a bug, we're discovering a new leaf, that's where you get excited, where you think, oh wow, this is a really magical place to be living. We're on a floating rock. That's when you feel that. So if you can connect people back to the all and the wonder of the place, then you can lead into those conversations. Because at the moment, it's not that people don't care. Of course we care, but there's just so much negativity that's thrown at us constantly, it's hard to break through. So when I advise charities on this a lot, they tend to show these negative shots of forest burned down and animals in cages, and people they just turn it off, they swipe, they they scroll. They're dealing with a lot in their lives. So it's finding a way to start with the wonder, stoke that kind of inspiration, call that playful child that is trying to skip away inside you, get that child's attention, and then you build outwards. I think that's the key. So loads of problems, but there are solutions.
SPEAKER_01:What an amazing answer. I mean, I know it really, really is because you've touched on lots and lots and lots of different things. I completely agree with that compassion fatigue. Everyone's really tired, it's tough. And there are lots of people who have things a lot worse than we do. But at the same time, it has been an onslaught, and I think we've become desensitized. And I love what you say about stoking the awe and the wonder. And that really only comes through human connection, doesn't it? You can't get it by following I don't know, uh a recipe that everyone else has followed. You have to follow your own sense of, oh, I find this interesting. And your friend might find something else interesting, but you talk about it and you kind of stoke that excitement and curiosity in each other and educate each other. I think that's one of the problems with the travel industry in recent times, but there's so much good work that's being done where these formulaic journeys and trips are literally just being tripped out. Oh, it's a this deal covers XYZ, it's a well-wodden trodden path, and that's the problem, isn't it? So I love that awe and wonder, and I also really love the fact that you've reminded us to be mindful of all of those smaller creatures. What? The stick insects and the the tiny things that you can't see, those are such important parts of the ecosystem.
SPEAKER_00:I love this. So I follow this kind of like venture of mine of the aw store, right? So I think life is a lot about collecting those moments of awe. And as you said, it's deeply personal. What you like is going to be different to what your sister likes, what your friend likes. It's going to vary for all of us. Your compass is your beating in your chest. Follow that. But I find those moments when your breath is taken away, whether it's a tiny little thing like a stick insect or a leaf cut around or a giant waterfall or a volcano, that feeling that it evokes, that kind of complete ignition inside you, is the most powerful thing we have as humans. It's the lifeblood. And what I try to do, and I think it's a great technique, not pumping my own arm, but it really works for me. When I feel that emotion, I hold my wrist and I breathe it in. And I try and store it inside my wrist. And it's good because you know you feel your heartbeat and it grounds you and all of that. But then when you're having a shit day later on, you just hold your wrist and breathe that in. It floods you and you remember, oh yeah, it is pretty great to be alive there. Not too bad. And as you said, it's those small things, I think, if you can start there. Because yeah, like most people, and a lot of the time you can't be seeing all these fantastic, majestic sights and escapes is looking around in London. Look at the jungles bursting through the pavement cracks. It's looking at those I was walking the other day and it was pouring rain, and I was standing underneath a street lamp, and the way that the light was refracting on the puddle when you just looked at it, it looked like a lemon fireworks display. In a p- Oh wow, you know, and it's like it's those little cheesy little things you've noticed when you're a child, which we tend to just fall away from because we're so busy tumbling through our thoughts and emotions, we totally lose sight of that. So yeah, following that core is so important and it's gonna help everyone. But if you find the thing that lights you up, you bloody follow it.
SPEAKER_01:Bloody follow it, so true. I mean, it's being in your body, isn't it, as opposed to in your head. Crawl out of your brain. And just tune into that vibration in your chest when you feel special. Do you know what? It's funny. I I kind of store special moments as well. I don't hang on to my wrist. I'm gonna remember that and I'm gonna try that next time. But if I'm conscious of a moment and living in London, I have many, many unconscious moments because it's just very, very busy. But if there's something that I've noticed, like the light in the puddle or I love daffled light, I love light that sort of ripples through the trees and creates shadows, that kind of thing, I will try and ground myself in that moment. Yeah. And it's hard to find in a city, but maybe when you're out in nature, we find ourselves coming out of our bodies more.
SPEAKER_00:But I always feel like it's going inwards too, because when you have those moments in nature, first of all, the vibration thing you mentioned. They vibe trees vibrate in the same frequency that's so calm, right? But also the elemental ingredients inside us, the water, the air, the mineral earth, we are nature. It's it's cheesy and wishy-washy to say, but we already are. We really are. And so connecting, I've always loved that quote from Alan Watts, which says, We didn't come into this earth, we came from it. You know, we are woven into it. And so it's moments like that in nature where I think it always takes you back inside and you feel this, oh, okay, this is me, you know? Because like you said, this the thoughts that come racing and tangle us up so much. This is the problem. It's very easy to say, you are not your thoughts, right? But equally, our brains are constantly racing and talking to us, and how do you step outside of it? And the way that helps a lot for me is I think, right, close your eyes and imagine what is my next thought gonna be. And your mind normally goes blank because you're gonna distill a sense of self beyond that. So that's the you, you're the one behind it. So step back, set with nature, and that's it.
SPEAKER_01:So oh my god, I love it. I and I don't think it's wishy-washy or strange at all. I actually think it's the secret to take yourself away from your ego, actually. I read something somewhere and I can't remember the author, but it was someone who was talking about the voice inside of ourselves is this kind of other, almost this other being. Well, it's not another being, but it is our other being. So if you think of this voice as sitting just behind your eyes. Yes, yeah, and it's you can almost sort of talk to it and coach yourself through these kind of periods of stress and separate yourself from it, and as you say, float back from it and just remember that you're on a on a rock whizzing round, you know, universe, nowhere, get a sense of perspective. So it's actually very spiritual, darling. I don't know whether you'd think of yourself as spiritual, but what I hear from you is actually you have a spiritual outlook on things, and that really shines through in the way my version of spirituality, anyway, in in the way you talk about everything around you, the natural world, and come at it from a curious way. It's beautiful. Please don't ever lose it. But we've talked about how all of your different interests kind of in intertwine and with your journalistic instincts clearly come through in your curiosity, and and I guess that's how you come at your travels and and how you see the world. I am interested in how you came to write your book. So let's just step back to your heritage and your writing for a moment, because this is a podcast about incredible Sri Lankan people, whether they see themselves as Sri Lankan or Sri Lankan or not, people with Sri Lankan heritage who are creative. And you wrote a book called Seek the Singing Fish. And I want to read out what the synopsis of the book says. It says Growing up in the lagoon town of Batcler, a young girl with an unquenchable curiosity and love of the natural world is entangled in the trauma and turmoil of the Sri Lankan Civil War. Uprooted from everything she holds dear, tragedy and betrayal set in motion, an unforgettable odyssey. Torn from east to west, struggling with what it means to belong, she desperately seeks a way home to the land of the singing fish. So I've I've got so many questions. You know, is this you? Isn't it autobiographical? Why did you write the book? Where did the characters come from? So I'd love you to just tell us why you wrote the book and answer all of the above.
SPEAKER_00:Enjoy fundamentally. I mean, there's definitely elements of myself in that. You know, from the unquenchable curiosity in the natural world, but it's woven with all different characters and people in my life and the features that I've come across which I adore and I want to emulate and other kind of more frightening things I've come across too. At the core, though, if I was to give you a nice succinct answer, it is a story about hoop in darkness. That's what I always wanted to write. It's about a young girl who goes through these untold horrors and traumas, and she escapes and copes with it through this sanctuary and refuge that she finds in the natural world. And that deeply personal thing for me. So, in the darkest point of my own life, when I lost my best friend, my granddad, and locked up people in quick succession, nature became even more of a sanctuary for me. It was this oasis that I can escape into and find solace, you know. And I think as well in COVID, a lot of people connected to that feeling, right? When the world was crumbling and tumbling into darkness, they would go out their daily walks to the park and they'd fill this slice of peace, you know. We found this pocket of serenity. And nature is so powerful. And I wanted to contrast the horrors of warfare with how breathtaking and life-saving nature can be, and how when you put those two things together and juxtapose them, it brings out the pigments of both. So you see just how horrific humans can be and just how wonderful nature can be and the overlaps. Um, but I think that I wanted to do a lot of things with this book. So one was through my journalistic background, I wanted to bring out a lot of quite horrific issues that I'd studied and led on, all cleaning on slavery and trafficking and PTSD. And I wanted to bring them out in a human way. So by telling it through the eyes of a young girl who one dimensions go through teenage issues, you know, she's got hormones, she's got crushes, she's got passions, she's got her own things to deal with, which are then overlapping with these wider issues and these contextual political problems. It's it brings it back to that very personal lens. As a storyteller, I've always wanted to bring the reader with me. So which is why the way I tell the story is I give the reader a name in it. Because if we're gonna go on this journey, if you're gonna come with me for all these pages, I might as well give you a name. Otherwise, it feels very impersonal. And I wanted to have that sense of like you're coming with me, like we're going on a journey together. And I actually based it, I use the word odyssey there because it's actually loosely based on Homer's original Odyssey.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so some of the in a in a kind of modern way, but some of the monsters that have, you know, survived from that classic epic poem, like Cyclops, for example, you know, the big one-eyed monster. There's a soldier in the book who has very narrow-minded perspective, and he can't just see things past this one way. Then you've got Herobitis, this whirlpool monster, which is represented in a tsunami in the book, you know, this kind of catastrophic event that happens and throws everything into disarray. Then you've got Lotus Eaters, the addictive problems that we have with homelessness on the streets and how we can distort reality. There's lots of layers going on, but at the core, it is about nature's power as a sanctuary to overcome darkness. And also, yeah, how passion and curiosity in itself, you'll see in the book, she uses information and gorges on information as a way to make sense of the world. And I think in this information age, and we have everything at on fingertips, it's completely, you know, it's it's over overwhelming in many ways. It's um it's a way to make sense of the world and it's a way to protect ourselves. And I also kind of went to toe the line of I'm taking you on a fiction story, it's a journey, but you're gonna learn a lot too. So there's a lot of factoids and information about nature and culture and geology that you'll find in there. And so at the least, if you didn't like the story, you're gonna be great in the pub quiz when you next oh wow, it's packed full.
SPEAKER_01:Isn't how can we buy the book?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I mean, everywhere. I mean, UK, it's in most bookshops and Amazon and stuff, and it's just gonna in uh America and um yeah, all over the place now, which is is great. I'm just I'm quite working on translation rights trying to get it uh converted. But yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Fantastic. And did you discover anything about yourself, this book or Sri Lanka, that surprised you whilst you were researching the book?
SPEAKER_00:I learned an awful lot because I sort of I I did use Sri Lanka Island as case studies in my degree, so I knew quite a lot about the conflict, obviously being of Sri Lanka, I knew a lot about it anyway. But I deep dived intensively. I kind of wrapped myself in the in the intestine of the conflict and understanding everything that I could about each component. And it's based on historical events too. So I wanted to make sure I did justice to what actually happened. Um, but I would say a lot of the personal conversations that I would have with relatives were really enlightening because a lot of relatives who, for example, I would never have associated them with like being that interested in nature, all of their memories that they brought back to Sri Lanka would always have nature woven into them, which surprised me. It's embedded almost into the soul of Sri Lankans. We have this paradise island there, torn paradise and see conflict bound. But they deep dived on a lot of the kind of anthropological issues and read loads of academic stuff too. But again, it was bringing it back to that human side of things. So learning as much as I possibly could from what real memories were and what people actually had going on in their lives, in their heads, what was still resonating in their bones in the years after the conflict. Because that's something I really wanted to bring out. You know, conflicts do not end when the ceasefire is and the peace of courts come. It rumbles so much further, and it is a battlefield that goes on and on and on. So that was something I was really keen to bring out.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think I think it's an incredible subject to tackle, and I agree with you. It is long gone and no one wants it to come back, but it does take time to get over these things, and it's wonderful that Sri Lankans are so patriotic, aren't they? And they're so welcoming, and people do live so happily side by side. And but for a long time Sri Lanka was defined by this conflict. Now we're seeing a change. So it's great that books like yours are coming out, which are so well researched and written in this way, which gets us to explore and ask questions about the emotions behind how people lived through it, and to emphasize a bit more. And did you find yourself connecting with anything in particular whilst you were doing all the academic research as well?
SPEAKER_00:I do you know what? So superstition is something that I kind of got went down some rabbit holes with. And I mean, superstition is something that's woven into like both the Irish and Sri Lanka heritage again, like the amount of things, the random things that you said in the house. It's like what like my dad would be like, Don't sit on the table, you won't get married. Like stupid things. Oh yes. That's an Irish one, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01:It's an Irish one. Oh my god, that's hilarious.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I would obviously then just sit on the table with them all, you know, just somewhere.
SPEAKER_01:Sitting on the table, don't marry me off.
SPEAKER_00:But um, yeah, I mean, so when I was going to kind of like the more natural world superstitions that came up, I remember discovering this thing about the devil bird, getting really invested in that and how people perceived it and this idea that when you hear it, it's a sign of an omen of death, it means death is coming, and the stories that were associated with it. But then you get tangled into kind of the patriarchal side of it too, and it always tends to be derogatory towards women in general. Um, you know, women don't tend to come out that well in these stories of days gone by, um, which then starts to infuriate you, but then you've got to kind of put it in context and understand it from another lens. And yeah. I think I'm really interested in how it always kind of affects nature for me. It really does. And so how people have used nature as a healing mechanism. Like you've seen it in conflicts all over the world, and Rwanda, in particular, obviously, with the genocide, that being this horrific barbarism, and you think, how can you ever get over those fault lines, you know, families living next door and murdering each other's siblings, but now living side by side, it's become this hugely positive case study. And there's a lot of studies about people taking these walks in nature and farming together and starting these collectives, and it's seeing the humanity behind it that is the core to everything. And that's why I tried to bring out in this work. This young girl, she can see both sides, she's surrounded by both sides. It's but she sits so far beyond it. And the ones who are getting shredded and torn are the humans. It's nothing to do with these identities we craft, which again, as I said, why do we draw these boxes? It's a strange human impulse.
SPEAKER_01:Listening to you talk, it's this is a perfect blend of all of these different uh interests and uh pieces of knowledge to have as a travel presenter. The BBC is obviously a huge broadcaster. And so it's going to capture the imagination of the largest audience. And to have someone who thinks about all of these elements, it's really genius. And I don't know if they landed on that intentionally or they've just bloody well lucked out. But for you to travel the world and think about all of these things and think about past, history, international relations, superstition, the people now, how they're living side by side, nature, the ecosystem. Because that's what travel is, isn't it? It sparks all of that curiosity. And I feel like you are a new type of presenter that brings all of these things together because uh traditionally it always feels like it's been very linear or sort of my myopic. It's been about the animals or about the landscape or about food. But to bring all of that together and weave it into a story that people can understand and emphasize with, let's hope that we can start to undo some of the harm that's going on elsewhere in the world when people are trying to shut down their borders. I could talk to you for absolutely hours. Um, but I can't, unfortunately. So I'm gonna come back to our kind of script and cover a few more things here because um I don't want to miss any of the bits of you that you're covering in your life. You have also started a company called Curious Fox Travel. Fitting, huh? Where did that come from, folks? So obviously it seems like an absolutely natural extension. Yes. But what is the idea behind this? Curious Fox.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, so this is my my baby. So I'm very, very excited about this. So it's a new company that I've set up, and it's all about curating breathtaking experiences that take you all over the world and fill up on those awe store moments, but it gives back to local communities at the grassroots level and it supports wildlife conservation and rewilding. So it's about having feel-good experiences that do good at the same time. Very core. So I worked with travel companies before, they've done lots of work in the industry, and I thought there was this gap, you know, we can make it kinder. It's that thing we were saying about wrapping up sustainability in a different way, and kindness is the key to this company. It's about it's it's the most underrated value that's out there, and it's so easy to spread. But it's thinking about how you can go into a place and do good things. And it's not the greenwashing of yes, okay, we get it, you know, less waste and you recycle. It's about, okay, how does you being here positively impact these communities? What have you done to bring the community up with you in this property? What have you done to support these creatures and bring them back to the area and actually support their habitats even further? It's about creating this positive ripple effect that I want to, because at the end of the day, this is about affecting positive change. It's giving people wonderful memories, you know, that they can store for a lifetime and making connections on the group tours that or people that they would never normally have come across. But it's also about changing their mindset on travel. Because I think we are now more conscious as travelers, you know, we want to do good. But we are in that limbo phase. I don't think people would necessarily take a holiday just because it does good. We're at that phase of like, oh, maybe I would, maybe I won't. So if you can have an experience and feel that rush of, oh my goodness, I've actually helped these families and these little businesses, and I supported that touching and those lizards, that feeling is going to stay with you. That's the stuff that's going to resonate long after that trip ends. So fundamentally, yeah, breathtaking experiences and giving back and doing good. That's what it's like.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I love that so much. And I think a lot of people given a choice between two different types of travel experience. If they were given a choice to go and stay somewhere that does support these kind of local businesses and the local business ecosystem and still have the same experience as if they went to stay somewhere which didn't, I think most people would choose option number one. Yeah. So it's finding those places and curating them and saying you can, you can go to all of these places across the world. And bringing local people into that trouble experience is a is a fundamental part of it, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. Um how are you going to learn about place if you don't talk to the people who live there?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I always focus on the people and I love nature. To bring both of those elements in, I think, is really important as you're doing. So, how are you going to curate all of the businesses that you're going to be showcasing through Curious Fox?
SPEAKER_00:So we do it by location at the moment. So we kind of pick key spots in the world that we think should have more of a focus. For example, we did a couple of group draws just now that I did in Osari and Sri Lanka. Sri Lanka, first of all, will always be a it'll be top of the mark because I'm very passionate about bringing people to Sri Lanka and changing the narrative of Sri Lanka too, because I don't like necessarily how Sri Lanka is portrayed in travel magazines and things. Absolutely. Can we talk about that for a moment? Because please, that's what this podcast is all about. Great, but it's so much more than that. I mean it's got this narrative that of poverty that follows it, and of course there are a lot of there's a lot of work to be done, but there's a sense of the West giving kind of a handout and helping Sri Lanka up, and there is so much kind of bubbling creative potential there, and entrepreneurs and artists, and there's so much there to be on that. It's it's an honor to be visiting Sri Lanka and all it has to offer, you know. And for me on the adventure side, because you know, I do love an adventure and I do love to curate adventure tours, there is so much to be seen, you know, Cynorajar Rainforest, Walton Plains, the Nakhul Mountains. There's so much there on that side that never really gets talked about. And then the food is a whole other world in its own right. You know, I I'm a big believer that Sri Lanka food is the best food in the world, and I don't think enough people talk about it. Like the food, the culinary side, I think, is grown as an add-on, but it could be its own kind of realm to delve into culture and people and women so much. So, yeah, passion about Sri Lanka, Sri Lanka will always be top of my list for curious box. Um, but also other countries like Guyana in South America, it's the least visited place in South America. There is so much to see there. You've got one of the biggest single drop waterports in the world, you've got this majestic array of eclectic creatures there, you've got so much to do, but it's underdeveloped. So it's looking at ways that we can actually help because you're having a big impact if you travel there, you know? Um, places like Nicaragua, next door to Costa Rica, you've got lots to see and lots to do, but it gets nowhere near the football that Costa Rica does. Picking locations that you can have a really positive impact on, and then it's also making sure we vet the properties and and the experiences closely, because it's one thing to say, yes, yes, we help the local community, but how would it help you, local community? You know, what part of your profit is actually you know going into rebuilding something else? How is it actually spreading those positive ripples? So, like in Sri Lanka, we work with some great um initiatives. There's um Tamarin Gardens, which are amazing. So they set up this wonderful farm initiative. So you go and live kind of like a local on the front, you get involved, and then you go and see the actual businesses that it's helped to support, the incense making, the jewelry making, and how it's brought up that community with it. And they're wonderful people who've adopted all dogs and cats in the area, and they're just you know kind-hearted people. And Sri, the Crock Shop, which employs, you know, women who are affected by domestic abuse and people with disabilities and would struggle with other employment opportunities. And so these are women who would otherwise be neglected and wouldn't be having anything to do economically. And they've they found this forum and it's allowing you to do cooking classes and crawl-off shops and support them in what they do. And it's not about pity, it's about you're amazing at what you do. Let's let's focus on that, let's put a spotlight on it, you know? It's not about handouts. This is about just shining a light on all the incredible things that are happening already.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's something that I'm very passionate about as well. And I think that having the ability to be shown all of these amazing people and giving value to what they do as well, giving value to the work. I think Sri Lanka has been relegated to being a cheap destination. Making people understand that it does take work and it does take investment to build up these beautiful properties, to build up these projects. It's still in inverted commas cheaper to travel to Sri Lanka, but it's really good value. But honestly, it's still undervalued, I think. And the craft and and the artisans that I see there, you can pick things up for much less than they're actually worth if you think about the time and the effort that has gone into producing these beautiful pieces. But maybe the more people that can see Sri Lankan that way will start to appreciate appreciate what they're buying and what they're experiencing. So thank you so much for all the work that you're doing through Curious Fox. I can't wait to see that growing. There are other countries in the world, folks, other than Sri Lanka, but this is a podcast about Sri Lanka. But uh Curious Fox covers lots of other countries. So on that note, I want to say how much I love having you in Hera Project X, which is about changing the narrative and shining a light on incredible Sri Lankan creative female entrepreneurs. Why do you think it is important for us to come together as a community of women in creative fields? What do you think is the benefit of that? Because we can all go off and do our own thing, but it's I'd be interested to hear why you've joined us.
SPEAKER_00:Well, first of all, I love it. It's incredible here. And I think oh I can get very excited about this topic because I think fundamentally on the female side, there's the creative business side, but female side, women are magical, magnificent creatures. And when you put us together, magic happens, you know? There's there's something profiled when women start to create, think, and ignite each other's ideas. You can't really put it into words, but I think the importance of the community aspect is that with creative businesses, there's a lot of hidden labor that goes on, right? You're always working, you never turn off your creativity. And a sense of community, first of all, can help you personally, you know, helps you keep going, and there's a sense of kind of solidarity, solidarity in that. But also it's about sparking inspiration. So one conversation with one person, they'll mention another person, you actually learned out to be perfect to talk to this person, and that's how it happens. Creativity is about forging new connections in new ways. And so by having all different women with different spheres of interests and passions then overlapping, it allows for cross-pollination of ideas, and that's where growth comes from. So it almost feels like Hero is like rocket fuel for that, because it's like a garden. You could you can have all these wild, wonderful plants growing. But if they're in this garden, which has got this fertile soil that's nourishing it, that's what's going to help it thrive. We know that underneath the soil, the roots chatter. They may all look wildly different on the surface, but those connections underneath are the things that are going to help them absolutely flourish. So I think it's fundamentally, it's just an incredible initiative. And yeah, women, creative women, collaborating is just fundamentally a palette for profound inspiration.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, it's fantastic. What a gorgeous analogy with the garden and the roots. I absolutely love it. I don't think you can be truly creative in a in a vacuum. I definitely don't. Um, having all of these conversations with all these different people has been has really inspired me beyond any imagination what I thought I could sort of collaborate on on the projects that I could pull together. And I've seen other people collaborate and pull together incredible events and come together and build products and uh create fashion looks from finding the material to designing what they're wearing to bringing in the jewelry to putting on a crackwalk show. And they are all people who are supporting local communities. This is what I love about what we're all doing here. So I'm so excited that you're part of it. And I hope that you're going to be drawing from our community as well as you travel around Sri Lanka. Yeah. And thanks to you, the Master Gardener. Well, I don't know about that, but it was just it was an idea, and what's been really lovely is it's just taken its own life, and these incredible people are coming together, and you're all breathing life into it. I couldn't certainly couldn't do it without you. But I would love to um just put some closing remarks because we're coming to the end of our time now. Um you came to stay at Calicanda House.
SPEAKER_00:I did. Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_01:With your partner, two incredible creatives, photographer, as well as the traveller and the writer and the author, and oh my god, as a designer, I worked really hard to create somewhere that's design-led. What can we as hoteliers do in order to be curated into the list that people like you are pulling together? What can we do better?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I first want to start with Calicanda House because that needs its own look. It needs its own freaking tone because it was honestly like paradise found there. I mean, it was at the end of a trip we've been running, and I needed some kind of rejuvenation. And it felt almost spiritually sacred entering there. There was something about the ground as you walk in. It just kind of cradled you. I it was hard to explain. It was this feeling of just being enwrapped in something really powerful there. And it it stilled you, it marinated you into the moment in every sense, you know, because you've got these wild, you've got monkeys coming to visit, you've got monitor lizards, you've got this ballet of butterflies over the pool, you've got the sound of curries cooking, you've got the sound of the waves crashing on Turtle Beach, there's this sense of being cocooned in nature, and you felt safe there, right? So I felt that kind of being replenished from the inside out. Thank you. But oh my goodness, like it it honestly, it's it's one of those things you do just have to feel. Everyone needs to go there because it's like an awakening inside yourself. That it's like that thing we were talking about, slowing down your thoughts and emotions, because there's something about that place that brings you back to that sense of awareness, you know. It sets you out of that raw of chaos and jungle tangle inside your own head, and you just feel fully present. You feel soaked in your own senses, and you need that. Sometimes you need a place that forcibly soaks you, you know? It's it's you rather than having to sit there and go, I'm gonna go into the forest and sit under a tree and try and think about the senses. You enter there, as soon as you're through the gates, and you were just completely shaped by it. I felt like it was almost like a primordial experience. It was like going back into like the womb of nature. So, I mean, that was incredible. And obviously, so many incredible offerings you have there with yo, this episode's in the star and all the things so close by as well. It was just a perfect place to stay. So I'm 100% curious, Fox is gonna be there all the time now. He won't get rid of it.
SPEAKER_01:Amazing! I'm really excited to be included in your curated um list of spaces, and thank you for such a beautiful description. I mean, I could just it makes me want to go back there now. When's the next flight?
SPEAKER_00:We go down, go Costa Rica, we do a little world tour.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yes, please, that would be amazing. You were saying, sorry, about the hoteliers, about what to Yeah, and what we can do to to fit in with this ethos that you've got about all of the different strands that you're pulling together into this beautiful blend of an understanding for travelers. What can we do better?
SPEAKER_00:I think it's seeing yourself as part of the ecosystem. That's the way I see it. Always a manager analogy. But it really is. How are you helping the local ecosystem around you to thrive? So, what are the things that you're doing that are helping people in that specific area? People perhaps gardening, cooking, bringing goods to that area, what are you doing that's helping those projects? What are you doing that's perhaps bringing local wildlife or flora and flora? What's helping it to flourish in that area? It's positioning yourself within the ecosystem rather than in a bubble. Because we see too many of these hotels and properties that get set up by some external visitor, they exploit the kind of area and the beauty it has to offer, but then they keep with the profits and it kind of just stays in this tight-knit little, you know, puddle. Whereas if you're offering something that spreads, that blooms, that opens, then that's what we're looking for. It's something that's firmly planted inside the ecosystem of a place. That's that's all we're looking for. And obviously, don't check on those things.
SPEAKER_01:So that's achievable, isn't it? It's achievable because there's so few places that are undiscovered in the world. And so what you described just now is for us as it within that sort of business supply chain and ecosystem to really think about how we can look around us and plug into the local communities, the local landscape, and be supportive of that. I can't stand those places that are bubbles either and just very lofty and separated. I think you've just made it very, very achievable. I think a lot of places across the world throw money at a property and they think that people want to be separated. They think that it's all about the price tag and about the exclusivity. I've never believed that. I'm sure there are some people who want that kind of thing, but I've never believed that that is really what a lot of people are looking for. It's it's for the connection. And you've just described that. So I was hoping you'd give that answer because it means that there is space for us all to do better and look around us and draw on our local landscape.
SPEAKER_00:It doesn't have to be this grand, insane plan with loads of money that needs to fuel it. It's simply looking around and being like, oh, okay, this is where I am. How can I help things around me? It's as simple as that. Imagine yourself as a pee pollinating different flowers. All it needs to be. It's the garden analogy all over again. Like it keeps coming back to it, you know? No rest.
SPEAKER_01:It is, it is. I would like to just wrap up by saying what's next for you. There's not going to be one answer to that, is there?
SPEAKER_00:On a basic level, it's just it's storing up more moments of war. It's enjoying life as much as possible, and on the spinning floating rock around the burning star. And um trying to affect was to change. You know, all I'm trying to do is just leave this place a little bit better than when I found it. And write some pretty great stories along the way. I mean, that's my core. I am a writer, and I feel like I have these stories building all the time inside me. And the more I experience adventure and take in of the worlds, it's helping to beat them, you know, and I feel like they're all brewing and coming. So I have about 10,000 notebooks here full of working on the next few scripts. And the only one I'll touch upon, because obviously I'm presenting and voice back and all that's going on, but the one book I'm really excited about is a book called Animalis that's coming next, where I'm trying to build a whole new world. So I'm fusing hybrid creatures, I'm creating senses between senses, rainfalls upwards, it's a whole other landscape, and it's an internal journey. So the thing I want to do is help people. I want people to read this book and feel better about living their lives and feel better equipped to finding happiness, meaning, and facing fears and anxieties. And so rather than an instructive, kind of boring self-help book, I want to take your adventure. We go on a journey inwards into a whole other world that's going to help you tackle those things and overcome challenges. So yeah, that's my next big project. I'm having a lot of fun going crazy in my own mind here and creating all of this nonsense, which will hopefully make sense.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It sounds fantastic. I can't wait to read it. Thank you so much for finding time to speak to me. Thanks for having me. In your busy schedule, it's whizzed by. And you'll have to come back for part two in series two so we can take a deeper dive into some of the things that you're doing through your curious fox travels. And I can't wait to see you in person. I know. Yeah, a hug and a cocktail, I think.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks so much, Dean. It's been wonderful.